Secular Planet

There's GOD.

2012-02-12T21:22:52.662-05:00

There's GOD.

There is nothing at all delusional to say that I a...

2012-01-02T16:21:42.447-05:00

There is nothing at all delusional to say that I am happy here and now, or that the people in my life are important to me. That my life is astoundingly small and brief doesn't mean that it's without value. Of course my life don't mean anything to the universe, but it means literally everything to me.

It's you, not I, who are stuck in a theistic framework, thinking the non-permanence of life entails that it's meaningless and not worth living.

Tell me one thing in my post that isn't true or I will assume your claim that I'm deluded is completely baseless.

Perfect summary: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index...

2012-01-02T13:41:42.296-05:00

Perfect summary:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2223#comic

Of course I do? In fact, 'concept' describ...

2012-01-02T13:39:33.809-05:00

Of course I do? In fact, 'concept' describes it perfectly. It's intangible and ephemeral. I would bet any sum that your definition of 'meaning' falls squarely under a) It's an integral piece of the delusional framework you have built for yourself.

Anon: Life is without meaning… To say such...

2012-01-02T13:16:56.151-05:00

Anon: Life is without meaning…

To say such a thing indicates that you don't even understand the concept of meaning in the first place.

Life is without meaning, and I am sick of atheist ...

2012-01-02T13:00:13.043-05:00

Life is without meaning, and I am sick of atheist apologists trying to square the theists' circle. No, you don't find 'other meaning' by replacing 'God's plan' with 'your plan'. You use that bit of casuistry to delude yourself into carrying on with your head high. Life consists of two choices, and you'll notice your faith is immaterial. You either a)delude and distract yourself b)check yourself out c)struggle to choose between a and b (but this is a derivative of a)
That's it. Period. Now get to it.

GSM: There is no larger purpose… I never s...

2011-12-22T13:39:13.065-05:00

GSM: There is no larger purpose…

I never said anything about a "larger" purpose. To say that life is not meaningful—referring to the title of your reply—is to think and speak like a theist. You're limiting yourself to a single notion of meaning, and a really terrible one at at that.

No, it's not. There is no larger purpose tha...

2011-12-22T13:15:46.060-05:00

No, it's not.

There is no larger purpose that the evil that befalls you, me, or us serves.

Or the good, for that matter.

It was not meant to be.

There is nothing higher that our lives are about, whether we think so or not.

As folks nowadays say so tautologically, "It is what it is," and that's all that it is.

And as for Laurance whose "here and now existence is glorious enough," we and he can hope his luck holds for a while.

It won't forever.

At best, there is the shipwreck of old age to look forward to.

Or, for those who prefer it, a quiet death before things get really bad, with or without dignity.

reaPlease reread this article of yours again. A l...

2011-12-15T16:24:50.448-05:00

reaPlease reread this article of yours again. A lot of your retaliatory comments on the letters are actually rather blatantly incorrect and stupidly ignorant of the points made in what you're criticizing. Why did you pen this? Is this a form of self-assurance for your elected religious beliefs? Is this how you've chosen to spend your life, hating and criticizing the proponents of what is your past? Is there anything wrong with coexisting peacefully with those who now believe differently from you? You are not going to change anyone's mind by writing such a piece; you have actually rendered my own beliefs on the subject even stronger. Now. Should I thank you for that?

When I was young - late teens, twenties, I bought ...

2011-12-12T12:51:05.712-05:00

When I was young - late teens, twenties, I bought the myth that life has Meaning and Purpose, and that our quest is to discover the Meaning and Purpose of Life.

But I was seriously depressed. Everything was postponed for me. I went to kindergarten in order to get ready for grade school, to grade school in order to be ready for high school. High school was preparation for college, and college was preparation for adult life, and adult life was once again for some purpose in the future. Everything was somewhere else, sometime else. I had no life HERE and NOW. I felt badly alienated and dislocated.

By the time I was in my thirties I'd figured out that when something means something else, that something else is somewhere else. If there's a purpose, it's off in the future, it's not now.

I never believed in god to begin with, or thought that this illusory meaning and purpose had anything to do with a deity. I'm glad for that. For me it was a matter of thinking it through and seeing that there was no reason to believe in any sort of meaning or purpose.

Far from being impoverished, I find my life extraordinarily rich. Without any meaning somewhere else or any purpose in some distant future, I have this amazing Here and Now.

Lately I've been realizing how vanishingly improbable it is that I happen to be alive at all, and conscious. But I am, and I feel such awe and respect for that fact. As Mr. Natural said, long ago, "Don't mean sheeit...", and for me this meaningless, purposeless world is far lovelier than anything created by any god.

There's a video that brings tears to my eyes. It's appeared on several sites, and it warms my heart.

http://io9.com/5867092/david-attenboroughs-rendition-of-its-a-wonderful-world-is-a-decidedly-excellent-way-to-start-your-week

If this link doesn't work, google David Attenboro It's a Wonderful World for this youtube vid.

Don't need no meaning. Don't need no purpose. Here and now exisitance is glorious enough.

Diana, I don't know if Jay Mooney's spec...

2011-12-09T15:04:14.810-05:00

Diana,

I don't know if Jay Mooney's specific claim about Garrison is correct or not (I thought he was Unitarian, which doesn't say much). But surely you realize a single quote doesn't define the beliefs of an individual through their lifetime?

Nor does claiming to be a "as a lover of Jesus Christ" in the context of the quote you gave, necessarily make one a Christian (ignoring the whole sub-text of who is and isn't a true Christian). Muslims will often claim to love Jesus Christ also and even atheists have said that they like the ideals of the Jesus story. (IMHO, anyone saying this hasn't read the Bible very carefully :).

If you quote me from my earlier years I would seem a zealot for Christ, and I was. My position changed as I learned more about the world and my view changed. Now I not only believe it's hogwash, I find little evidence to support a belief that Jesus existed even as a mere person as described in the Bible (some events ascribed to Jesus seem to describe the actions of other real people, such as Judas of Galilee).

I really dislike these arguments about the religiosity of someone who did X because they are ultimately irrelevant. Christians do good things, Atheists do good things, Muslims do good things... even VERY BAD PEOPLE do good things. Hitler did some wonderful things for Germany, Hamas does wonderful things for many Palestinians, Saddam Hussein did some wonderful things in Iraq.

And people who should be good, likewise do some pretty horrible things.

This is different from saying that some people are ignored in history due to their religion (or lack thereof), that most certainly happens - on all sides.

The question is for me in this case is, what does the Holy text of the religion itself actually say and the Bible is clearly in support of Slavery. So any person, Christian or otherwise, went against the Bible when they supported its abolition. Good for them - but IMHO, bad for Christianity.

The failure of Jesus to say something akin to "WHAT IN GOD'S NAME ARE YOU IDIOTS DOING KEEPING SLAVES" destroys any authenticity of the Bible for me. I will not, cannot support a religion that couldn't even make this simple observation: treating other humans as property is WRONG.

I'll let others argue about the specifics, I really don't care -- but I did want to point out a possible flaw in your historical approach to the question as being far too narrow to actually address the question.

But I do thank you for raising the possible issue. We must strive to be accurate in our claims; especially when they are inconvenient to our argument.

William Lloyd Garrison, an atheist? Seriously. ....

2011-12-09T10:28:25.821-05:00

William Lloyd Garrison, an atheist?

Seriously. . .

Perhaps he was anti-clerical and despised hypocrital religious leaders, but he loved Jesus.

He said he wasn't a follower of any man--not Luther, not Calvin, nor "His Holiness the Pope." But as a "lover of his fellow-man, I ought not to shun; as a lover of Jesus Christ, and of his equalizing, republican and benevolent precepts, I rejoice to perform." Louis Ruchames, The Abolitionists: A Collection of Their Writings (New York: G.P. Putnam and Sons, 1963), 188.

Anon: "…I'm causing her pain…" What...

2011-12-01T08:00:42.334-05:00

Anon: "…I'm causing her pain…"

Whatever you do, don't ever, ever blame yourself for your sister's sadness! Her mistaken belief in the evil doctrine of hell is what's causing her pain. You should feel absolutely no guilt whatsoever for disbelieving!

If anyone has any comments on how to deal with fam...

2011-12-01T01:47:13.983-05:00

If anyone has any comments on how to deal with family that truly believes you are going to hell, I'd love to hear it. I know my sister loves me very much and she's been very understanding when I told her that I'm an atheist. But a few days ago when we were having a discussion about it, she couldn't help herself and started crying because she's so scared that I'll go to hell. I got so sad when she started crying, because I'm causing her pain and I seem to not be able to help it! Advice anyone?

Hey, I'm only 5 years late on commenting. I w...

2011-11-16T12:24:33.975-05:00

Hey, I'm only 5 years late on commenting.

I would like to point out that Christians were not the FIRST to oppose slavery either, not by a long shot. As best I can tell that credit goes to some of the Zoroastrian Persian's, LONG before Christianity.

So clearly we should all convert to Zoroastrianism immediately as this proves it's the one, true religion, Right?

I also highly recommending about Ernestine Louise Rose, atheist feminist, and abolitionist. She was absolutely brilliant. As was Elizabeth Cady Stanton.

And if you don't recognize these two KEY persons you might wonder why not after you read more about them. I would assert that religious bigotry has excluded them from exposure other activists enjoyed.

Religion poisons everything, indeed. Especially history.

Now you can find a path to accepting the true beau...

2011-10-06T13:12:38.169-04:00

Now you can find a path to accepting the true beauty of life and gain a larger appreciation for it.
Part of that is accepting the realites of its end.

Non Existence..Okay why don't we believe in Go...

2011-09-25T15:27:15.770-04:00

Non Existence..Okay why don't we believe in God or eternity. It is because it is difficult to perceived or understand. Yet we believe in none existence? which is impossible to perceive or understand? where did we go wrong? Ask yourself that question.

I have the same situation with my mother - she thi...

2011-07-25T04:05:19.071-04:00

I have the same situation with my mother - she thinks because I don't believe in God that I am doomed. Last night I dreamt that SHE went to hell and was in a place with lots of fat people and drunks = the 2 things she HATES in this world and never stops going on about. Perhaps that is how it works - we end up in our own Hell?!

I just wanted to thank you. I suffer from severe ...

2011-07-20T06:18:36.154-04:00

I just wanted to thank you.
I suffer from severe hypochondria and scrupulosity. It's torturous, but reading this makes me feel a lot better. I'm happy I'm not alone.

I'm young, but I'm not an impressionable p...

2011-07-17T17:05:44.503-04:00

I'm young, but I'm not an impressionable person. I feel like you took all of those thoughts out of my head.

Jaesen, I know you have already had responses to y...

2011-07-11T09:05:59.794-04:00

Jaesen, I know you have already had responses to your comment, but I felt I needed to add mine to the mix to just a few of your comments:

So where WILL you invest your time? ANY spiritual exploration at all? ANY self-reflection?
There are plenty of things other than "spiritual exploration" to invest one's time in. How about furthering our understanding of the universe (which I might add, religion has on many occasions in history been a hinderance). Self reflection happens all the time for EVERYBODY, not just the religious. I, as an atheist, am self-reflecting all the time based on my interactions with people and how things are going in my life. You don't need to be religious to self-reflect.

But your allegiance goes SOMEwhere? Where? Why?
Why should one's allegiance be to a principal that can't be proven or has many principles that are considered vile by modern civilisation standards. You're question translates to me as "Well, seeing that there is nothing else to show allegiance to, it might as well be {insert religion here}". A rather ignorant and intellectually dishonest viewpoint in my opinion.

So why are Christians the focus of his attack if nothing bad will happen to us?
Why so vocal then?
The OP stated his reasons for christianity being the focus of his "attack" at the end of his post: "I used Christianity as an example since I know it better than any other religion". Atheist's around the world have been too quiet and allowed dogmatic religions to discriminate and suppress them for too long. It is about time there was some discussion about it. I disagree with your choice of the word "attack" because in essence, it was not. If you could construe this as an attack, then I wouldn't like to know what you would call religious publication when they speak of other religions or atheists. All the OP is doing is sharing his view (which is one of the great wonders of the internet, go figure) and starting discussion, which ultimately, is useful in broadening knowledge and understanding, whether the post is wrong or right. Why do the religious see every criticism against their religion as an "attack"? I reckon if they just chilled a bit more, there would probably be less war in the world.

Atheism offers lack of freedom to choose a religion without being perceived by your Atheist peers as a "puppet" "pawn" or "mindless follower".
I could say a similar thing about religious groups. In fact, with a religious group it's worse. The minute a person who was once religious reveals themselves as an atheist to their religious peers, the alienation begins. I can't speak for atheists reconverting back to religion because I personally don't know anybody. I can say, however, I probably wouldn't ostracize them unless they started becoming a pain in the ass but even then, it would only be on a friendship level because the friend by extension wouldn't be able to be friends with me on principle. Can't say I would hate the person. Atheists don't hate the religious, they hate the idea religion sells in that one must believe in something that claims itself above any rational criticism and testing. Quite different from the fury an atheist has to endure when leaving religion.

Just my two cents.

Church was pointless as well as atheism.

2011-06-23T03:41:52.989-04:00

Church was pointless as well as atheism.

Good post. I've had similar experiences. Tryin...

2011-05-30T09:26:55.708-04:00

Good post. I've had similar experiences. Trying to have a logical discussion with a Christian can be very frustrating.

Like you, I was also raised as a Christian. I went to church almost every Sunday, and I said a prayer every night at bedtime. Somehow I was a different person then. Anyway, I think I understand how you feel.

Excellent post. I decided to be more aggressive wi...

2011-05-29T02:19:52.306-04:00

Excellent post. I decided to be more aggressive with my atheism (i.e., simply telling people that I am atheist), and I have received mixed results. On the one hand, it's encouraged my parents to think critically when they hear Bill O'Reilly screaming on Fox News that "atheists hate the baby Jesus," and to realize that he really has no idea what atheism even is. On the other hand, my religious relatives now feel the need to show me the error of my ways, which of course are due to my age, gender, and political party.

People seem to have the idea that atheists are either a) angsty teenagers, b) Christopher Hitchens, or c) Richard Dawkins. While Hitchens and Dawkins are great men, they are not representative of all atheists.

I feel it's almost my duty to directly convey my atheism to others, and to show them that yes, it is possible to be an ethical, fully functional member of society without believing in a supreme being. I'm glad to know that at least some of my fellow atheists feel the same way.

Once again, great post.

Secular Planet

There's GOD.

There is nothing at all delusional to say that I a...

Perfect summary: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index...

Of course I do? In fact, 'concept' describ...

Anon: Life is without meaning… To say such...

Life is without meaning, and I am sick of atheist ...

GSM: There is no larger purpose… I never s...

No, it's not. There is no larger purpose tha...

reaPlease reread this article of yours again. A l...

When I was young - late teens, twenties, I bought ...

Diana, I don't know if Jay Mooney's spec...

William Lloyd Garrison, an atheist? Seriously. ....

Top post And what Shannon said in 2nd last paragr...

Anon: "…I'm causing her pain…" What...

If anyone has any comments on how to deal with fam...

Hey, I'm only 5 years late on commenting. I w...

Now you can find a path to accepting the true beau...

Non Existence..Okay why don't we believe in Go...

I have the same situation with my mother - she thi...

I just wanted to thank you. I suffer from severe ...

I'm young, but I'm not an impressionable p...

Jaesen, I know you have already had responses to y...

Church was pointless as well as atheism.

Good post. I've had similar experiences. Tryin...

Excellent post. I decided to be more aggressive wi...